After going out of fashion for quite a while club vs country tour matches appear to be making a somewhat tentative comeback this November. South Africa have brought back a midweek team which will take on Munster and Bristol (although they are now branding the team only as "SA Select XV") and Chile will be playing Leinster.
These one off matches are noteworthy for managing to be both very interesting and also at the same time not particularly offering much insight.
They are interesting as they seriously challenge a widespread assumption held by many rugby fans. Namely the vast superiority of the level of international rugby over domestic rugby.
Club sides have often done considerably better in these contests than what most who have not followed the historical trends in these matches would commonly expect.
As you will see in the list we have compiled, one of the reasons these matches have become so rare over recent years is likely due to the frequency at which some major and minor embarrassments would occur for the national team (including some of the biggest).
There is the obvious caveat. Most (but not all) such matches tend to played with national teams fielding more experimental midweek selections in a more of a kind of training or pre-season mode. Although equally it should be noted in many of these matches the clubs are without their star internationals and not playing at full strength either.
Video: Suntory score late on to shock Wales on their tour to Japan in 2001
Nevertheless they still reliably produce some surprising results regardless. You would not expect a near full strength Uruguay to lose to a second/third string Cardiff side by a wider margin that they did against the full Wales team at the RWC a year later. Or the toughest match of the All Blacks November tour in 2008 to be a Munster side minus all their internationals. Or Samoa to beat Scotland in 2013 the week after losing 74-14 to the Lions. Or Romania to lead Scotland for 70 minutes at RWC 2011 after having lost to Fédérale 1 side Périgueux in their previous match.
Video: Munster vs All Blacks highlights from 2008
But whilst this raises an interesting question of whether people generally overestimate the degree to which a lot of international rugby is of a much higher level than a lot of club rugby. It is also obvious these games are nearly always truly terrible guides of the form and level that a national side is at.
Whereas an average of recent international test matches usually (but not always) give some rough marker of where a team at that moment maps onto the hierarchy of the sport. Club vs country matches leave you almost clueless as to where a team stands and often give very little predictive insight.
The most plausible explanation for some of the stranger club vs country results is probably in equal measure some large differences in motivation and preparation (average club players are generally much more excited to play a national team than vice versa) compared to a full test. Along with international rugby being to some degree put on too much of a pedestal next to club rugby (most of the leading club sides in "Tier 1" countries could compete with and challenge all the major national sides even if their average performance might be less intense due to attritional nature of a 30 match season).
From a "Tier 2" perspective there is some debate as to whether playing matches against clubs are a good idea as training to play "Tier 1". On one hand they can offer decent fully professional opposition for players, on the otherhand they can also offer embarrassment and a result that will leave you with zero mark of the level your team is at.
Anyway here is a run down of as many of the club vs country matches we could find that have taken place since 2000. Should these matches take place more often?
Video: Leicester defeat the Springboks on their November 2009 tour
SANZAAR
Argentina
Los Pumas narrowly escaped a loss to Worcester before RWC 2011 with a late 75th minute try, but otherwise have a very decent record in these games compared to most others. Of course they are one of the only major nations to have also played as a full national team in a domestic competition which they did playing as the Jaguares in Super Rugby between 2016 to 2019. Their overall win rate in Super Rugby was exactly 50% with 33 wins from 66 games.
2000: Reds (35-29)
2000: Waratahs (27-26)
2001: Counties Manukau (70-26)
2001: Thames Valley (26-12)
2007: Northampton (40-17)
2007: Leicester (41-21)
2011: Worcester (21-15)
2015: Leicester (55-34)
Australia
The Wallabies briefly revived a midweek touring side between 2006 to 2010. Losses to much understrength Ospreys and Munster sides saw them follow New Zealand and South Africa in axing the matches out of embarrassment.
2006: Ospreys (16-24)
2009: Gloucester (36-5)
2009: Cardiff (31-3)
2010: Leicester (26-15)
2010: Munster (6-15)
New Zealand
In November 2008 the All Blacks easily beat all four of the Home Nations without even conceding a single try, but in a midweek match against Munster (which was to mark the 30th anniversary of their meeting in 1978) they trailed most of the match and only avoided an upset with a late 76th minute try. They have not dared risk adding a club match to a tour since.
2008: Munster (18-16)
South Africa
In a RWC 2007 warm up the Springboks only led Connacht (back when they were really impoverished) 3-0 at half time and only pulled away in the final 15 minutes. A brief return to midweek tour games in November 2009 saw them lose to Leicester (featuring an 18 year old Manu Tuilagi on first team debut) and Saracens and they swiftly abandoned the idea.
2007: Connacht (18-3)
2009: Leicester (17-22)
2009: Saracens (23-24)
Six Nations
England
England like all the Home Nations traditionally played clubs on Southern Hemisphere tours throughout the amateur era. This changed as the pro era properly kicked off though and the last time they faced clubs was on their tour to South Africa in 2000.
2000: Leopards (52-22)
2000: Griquas (55-16)
2000: Valke (36-27)
Ireland
The only memorable thing about Ireland's two modern day club vs country matches was a controversy over Kiwi lock Mikaera Tewhata flooring Brian O'Driscoll with a big punch.
2007: Bayonne (42-6)
2011: Connacht (38-3)
Italy
In 2003 Italy went on a five match tour of domestic sides in New Zealand instead of playing any national sides. The tour did not go that well as they lost three of them and did not play another club side for 15 years until playing Yamaha Jubilo as a warm up before facing Japan.
2002: Manawatu (37-13)
2003: Southland (18-40)
2003: Counties Manukau (26-18)
2003: Bay of Plenty (30-33)
2003: Taranaki (18-13)
2003: Waikato (3-23)
2018: Yamaha Jubilo (52-19)
France
The sole occasion in the last 20 odd years France played a domestic side on tour they got a good 38-15 win over the Blues on an otherwise forgettable tour of New Zealand where they scored just one try in three tests.
2013: Blues (38-15)
Scotland
Scotland lost by an aggregate score of 74-20 to the Reds and the Waratahs on their 2004 trip to Australia. As we see so many times, this embarrassment was a cue to stop any more such games on future tours.
2000: Nelson Bays (25-25)
2000: Hawke's Bay (24-7)
2004: Reds (5-41)
2004: Waratahs (15-33)
Wales
Wales famously got shocked by Suntory Sungoliath on their 2001 tour to Japan. This embarassment was good reason to stop playing any more clubs on tours for a long while, before briefly coming back to the idea in the mid 2010s. After a 40-7 thrashing by the Chiefs in 2016 midweek touring matches were promptly shelved again.
2001: Suntory Sungoliath (41-45)
2014: Southern Kings (34-12)
2016: Chiefs (7-40)
Tier 2 nations
Japan
The last time Japan faced a club side was a midweek match in November 2013 where they were swept aside 40-5 by Gloucester. The Brave Blossoms have not played any more clubs as midweek touring games or World Cup warm ups since.
2010: North Harbour (19-23)
2013: Gloucester (5-40)
Fiji
Fiji last played a club team back on their miserable November tour of 2012 where they lost to Gloucester (who were keen organisers of such matches between 2009-2013).
2003: Brumbies (25-26)
2003: Reds (31-24)
2003: Marlborough (75-12)
2007: Albi (49-24)
2012: Gloucester (29-31)
Samoa
Samoa have played numerous domestic sides usually as World Cup warm ups although fewer in the last decade. The most startling result was in 2013 where they lost 74-14 against the Lions in South Africa. Over the next two weeks Samoa played some great rugby to beat Scotland 27-17 and Italy 39-10 and reach their all time World Ranking high of 7th. In contrast though they are also one of the only "Tier 2" teams to beat Premiership clubs, but on both occasions this was followed by somewhat disappointing RWC campaigns in 2007 and 2015.
2002: Pumas (26-21)
2002: Cheetahs (33-38)
2003: Waratahs (48-41)
2003: Reds (42-43)
2003: Cheetahs (45-51)
2003: Lions (34-32)
2003: Pumas (29-35)
2003: Northland (27-17)
2003: Auckland (16-21)
2007: Harlequins (21-22)
2007: Northampton (24-21)
2007: Sale (26-7)
2010: Connacht (22-26)
2011: Western Force (35-24)
2011: Western Force (37-10)
2013: Lions (14-74)
2015: Wasps (25-19)
Tonga
Tonga lost to Newcastle just a couple weeks before they recorded their historic away win over Scotland in November 2012.
2003: Reds (24-12)
2003: Brumbies (13-25)
2007: Edinburgh (26-14)
2012: Newcastle (13-24)
2015: Nottingham (69-14)
2019: Western Force (19-15)
Georgia
French clubs used to be the staple of Georgia's earlier RWC warm up campaigns. They faced five clubs beginning with the letter 'A' before RWC 2007 and lost them all. This appeared not to totally ruin morale though, as at the tournament they would overperform in pushing in Ireland to a 14-10 loss, keeping Argentina to 6-3 at half time, and dominating Namibia 30-0. Results that won extra government support to transform rugby in the country in the future.
2002: La Rochelle (13-18)
2002: Aurillac (?)
2002: Colomiers (34-48)
2002: Béziers (0-36)
2003: Biarritz (0-21)
2007: Auch (17-20)
2007: Agen (6-17)
2007: Agen (13-31)
2007: Albi (13-24)
2007: Auch (7-13)
2011: Aurillac (28-24)
2011: Bourgoin (28-15)
2015: Newcastle (7-27)
2019: Southern Kings (24-20)
Romania
In a curious bit of trivia. In the match before Romania so nearly shocked Scotland at the 2011 World Cup. They lost by 13 points to a Fédérale 1 side Périgueux.
2003: Narbonne (7-29)
2007: Neath (41-10)
2011: Périgueux (7-20)
2015: Yorkshire Carnegie (10-10)
2015: Edinburgh (16-31)
Canada
Canada buck the trend of "Tier 2" sides getting rather dismal results against club sides, then doing much better than you would expect from that result against international sides. In a 2015 RWC warm up they beat the reigning Pro14 champions Glasgow, but then lost to Romania (who had drawn with Championship side Yorkshire Carnegie in their RWC warm ups) at the tournament. In 2019 they also nearly beat European giants Leinster in one of the better "Tier 2" vs club results, but then suffered their worst ever RWC campaign (which their international results would have predicted but not that Leinster result).
2015: Glasgow (19-12)
2018: Coventry (35-12)
2019: Leinster (35-38)
USA
The Eagles midweek match with Saracens in 2010 was notable as it was where Northampton would spot Samu Manoa before he went onto become a club legend. The match with Munster in 2008 was also notable for it featuring a 17 year old rising talent Hanno Dirksen before being lost to USA rugby after Scott Johnson took him to Wales.
2000: Cross Keys (22-7)
2007: Munster (6-10)
2008: Munster (22-46)
2010: Saracens (6-20)
2015: Harlequins (19-24)
Uruguay
Uruguay at near full strength losing 45-21 to a second/third string Cardiff team was a bit of an embarrassment on their horrible November tour in 2018 (they also got slaughtered 68-7 against Fiji that month). Much of that same side a year later though at the RWC would beat Fiji and lose by a lower margin against the full Wales side.
2001: Newport (5-59)
2001: Neath (3-29)
2018: Cardiff (21-45)
2018: Ulster (5-21)
Namibia
Whilst their Welwitschias side that competed in South African domestic rugby rarely did well, Namibia scored two good wins over Southern Kings in their last RWC warm up campaign.
2019: Southern Kings (28-22)
2019: Southern Kings (21-17)
Portugal
Portugal's loss to London Welsh before the 2007 World Cup was notable for the hysterically ludicrous scaremongering over a match with the All Blacks being unsafe.
2007: London Welsh (16-19)
2007: Coventry (22-20)
2008: Connacht (11-27)
2008: Ulster (6-62)
Russia
Russia's record against clubs is a somewhat of a horror show. They played clubs ahead of both their RWC appearances and lost every single game, most by quite wide margins, with their defeat to Championship side Jersey in a 2019 World Cup warm up creating some humiliating headlines (there were rumours of the Bears not playing these games properly to avoid injury).
2011: Northampton (19-54)
2011: Dragons (12-40)
2011: Ospreys (19-46)
2011: Gloucester (7-47)
2018: Dragons (24-38)
2019: Jersey (22-35)
2019: Connacht (14-42)
Hong Kong
Hong Kong played and narrowly lost to the Dragons as a warm up to the RWC Repechage games in 2018.
2018: Dragons (24-28)
Brazil
Racing 92 on paper (featuring likes of Simon Zebo, Finn Russell, Juan Imhoff, Joe Rokocoko, Antonie Claassen, Donnacha Ryan) were probably one of the best sides Brazil has faced when they met in a pre season game in 2018. Os Tupis did well to keep it under 50 points.
Argentina
Australia
New Zealand
South Africa
England
Ireland
Italy
France
Scotland
Wales
Japan
Fiji
Samoa
Tonga
Georgia
Romania
Canada
USA
Uruguay
Namibia
Portugal
Russia
Hong Kong
Brazil
No comments :
Post a Comment